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Which RISC OS computer should I buy? |
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Juhani Haverinen |
Message #119619, posted by JuEeHa at 17:19, 28/2/2012 |
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Hello. I am quite new to RISC OS (I have only used RISC OS 5 IOMD ROM under RPCEmu) and I am wondering which computer should I buy. I have thought about:
-Hunt an used RiscPC
-Hunt an used IYONIX
-Buy BeagleBord
-Wait until Raspberry Pi port of RISC OS is ready and then buy it
You can also suggest more ideas. Also I would want to know what OS version I should/shouldn't use. I have heard that RISC OS 4 has more features than RISC OS 5, but it only runs on RiscPC. Is that correct? I am thinking of using RISC OS on daily basis and I can tolerate a little bit slow or limited computers/software. (Whean I say slow I mean slow and not something like 700MHz pentium III. I mean something like pc from 1994. 100MHz Pentium I, 40MB of RAM and 1GB HD. With right software (Dillo web browser, Damn Small Linux, TinyX and wwm) it was pretty pleasant experience.)
[Edited by JuEeHa at 17:29, 28/2/2012] |
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David Holden |
Message #119620, posted by apdl at 17:37, 28/2/2012, in reply to message #119619 |
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When personal computers first appeared there was a standard answer to the 'what computer should I buy' question which is now largely forgotten but which is still valid. You need to ask yourself the following questions.
1. What do I want to do?
2. What software do I need to run to do it?
3. Which computer runs that software?
It's surprising how many people who use RISC OS have forgotten this and buy an Iyonix or Beagleboard because they're the 'newest' or 'best' and then discover that the 20 year old software software they want to use (ie. most of it) won't run on it so they need to keep their old RiscPC or use an emulator to run it. |
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David Holden |
Message #119621, posted by apdl at 17:48, 28/2/2012, in reply to message #119619 |
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I have heard that RISC OS 4 has more features than RISC OS 5, but it only runs on RiscPC. Is that correct? RISC OS 5 is (effectively) the 32 bit version of RISC OS 4.02 and is functionally the same. Later versions of RO 4 (eg. 4.39) add a lot of extra features. |
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Steven Gregory |
Message #119622, posted by thecellartroll at 19:19, 28/2/2012, in reply to message #119621 |
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If you want to follow the development of Risc OS 5 then you'd probably be better getting a Beagleboard, or a BB Based machine like the ARMini.
However, if you want to explore where Risc OS came from then you might be better off with something like an Archimedes or A3000-A5000. On these you can play most of the games that were released for Risc OS machines.
If you want "retro" Risc OS, but still want to get something useful done, e.g. limited web browsing, word processing, dtp etc then you'd probably be best going for a StrongARM or Kinetic Risc PC. |
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Sion |
Message #119624, posted by apacketofsweets at 22:47, 28/2/2012, in reply to message #119619 |
 RISC OS, too cool for Javascript.
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In short, if you are after a modern RISC OS experience, grab yourself a BeagleBoard or an ARMini. Alternatively, you could also buy a second hand 'last-gen' machine, such as the Iyonix (best prices on eBay) and the A9Home (still available new from many RISC OS dealers, although there's a second hand one going cheap over at CJE Micro's at the moment).
Or you could wait for the Raspberry Pi and use VirtualRPC or a high-spec RiscPC in the meantime.
Personally, if you've never properly tried RISC OS before I'd go for VirtualRPC (http://www.virtualacorn.co.uk) as it's a very cheap way of getting a fully fledged RISC OS experience). |
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Jason Togneri |
Message #119626, posted by filecore at 06:56, 29/2/2012, in reply to message #119619 |
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Gosh, a Finn. That makes a grand total of four that I know who are interested in (and know of) RISC OS!  missä asut täällä hetkella? |
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George Greenfield |
Message #119629, posted by Bucksboy at 10:26, 29/2/2012, in reply to message #119624 |
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An even cheaper way of getting a fully fledged RISC OS experience by way of emulation is to use RPCEmu: http://www.riscos.info/index.php/RPCEmu
which, apart from being free, gives you the option of using the latest versions of RISC OS (5.XX) as well as the legacy 26-bit versions (4.XX). So you can have your cake and eat it, so to speak. Installation is straightforward, though the networking/internet enabling instructions need to be followed carefully! NB also, networking is not yet available under RPCEmu/RO5.XX. There is an active user group which is very helpful if you hit problems: http://www.riscos.info/pipermail/rpcemu/
Speed on a modern PC or Mac will be as good as or better than all historic RISC OS hardware up to and including the Iyonix, and stability is good, in my experience. |
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Jason Togneri |
Message #119630, posted by filecore at 10:45, 29/2/2012, in reply to message #119629 |
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An even cheaper way of getting a fully fledged RISC OS experience by way of emulation is to use RPCEmu: http://www.riscos.info/index.php/RPCEmu But he already said he's used that:
Hello. I am quite new to RISC OS (I have only used RISC OS 5 IOMD ROM under RPCEmu) Furthermore:
Speed on a modern PC or Mac will be as good as or better than all historic RISC OS hardware up to and including the Iyonix But he also already said:
I am thinking of using RISC OS on daily basis and I can tolerate a little bit slow or limited computers/software. (Whean I say slow I mean slow and not something like 700MHz pentium III. I mean something like pc from 1994. 100MHz Pentium I, 40MB of RAM and 1GB HD.) Please read the original message again. |
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David Holden |
Message #119631, posted by apdl at 10:48, 29/2/2012, in reply to message #119629 |
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An even cheaper way of getting a fully fledged RISC OS experience by way of emulation is to use RPCEmu: http://www.riscos.info/index.php/RPCEmu which, apart from being free, gives you the option of using the latest versions of RISC OS (5.XX) as well as the legacy 26-bit versions (4.XX). So you can have your cake and eat it, so to speak. But bear in mind if you choose to use RO5 then you are going to be limited to using only 32 bit programs, which means no legacy stuff (ie. 95% of them).
RPCemu is certainly a good starting point but you'd be much better off running RO4 which will run just about everything. |
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Jason Togneri |
Message #119632, posted by filecore at 11:25, 29/2/2012, in reply to message #119631 |
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you'd be much better off running RO4 which will run just about everything. Seconded. If it's everyday functionality (office apps and similar) you're interested in, older software is more stable and more available. Of course, when 'older' means 10-20 years old, don't look for anything terribly fancy, in today's terms. Or even 100% compatible with modern standards. Web browsing? Probably best to stick to a modern machine. |
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Juhani Haverinen |
Message #119633, posted by JuEeHa at 13:21, 29/2/2012, in reply to message #119632 |
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After checking ARMv7 compatibility list it seems that at least NetSurf, gcc and AMPlayer should work BeagleBoard (And maybe Raspberry Pi). I have compiled NetSurf 2.7 and used it and web browsing is ok on it. I never use flash or any plugins other than Video player and that is only because it makes my life with FlashVideoReplacer easier and I could live without it. By the way does anyone here know video player for RISC OS 5 that can play mp4 videos and is ARMv7 compatible? Asun Oulussa. Itse tiedän RISC OS:sta kiinnostuneeksi lisäkseni ainakin tunnuksella theinonen hopeinen omena palstalla esiintyvän henkilön.(Hän omistaa IYONIXin)
EDIT: I would want to add that I would propably use RISC OS as my main OS and I am a huge Open Source nut. (In my definition RISC OS 5 license is open source)
[Edited by JuEeHa at 13:28, 29/2/2012] |
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Andrew Rawnsley |
Message #119635, posted by arawnsley at 13:34, 29/2/2012, in reply to message #119633 |
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If you're interested in video on RISC OS, you're probably on the wrong track, but you'll certainly want the fastest possible hardware. That means a beagleboard/ARMini or Pandaboard. Rumour has it that there's a port of mplayer which allows a variety of videos to be played, but needs 1Ghz+ CPU really. There's also a port of ffmpeg/ffplay but again you need a monster CPU to make real use of it.
Obviously the future goal is to leverage greater hardware acceleration, but for now, RISC OS relies on CPU oomph for such things. |
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Sion |
Message #119636, posted by apacketofsweets at 14:07, 29/2/2012, in reply to message #119633 |
RISC OS, too cool for Javascript.
Posts: 107
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I would want to add that I would propably use RISC OS as my main OS It all depends on what you'll use your main OS for, RISC OS is not suitable for anything involving mass amounts of video or even relatively advanced web browsing.
[Edited by apacketofsweets at 14:08, 29/2/2012] |
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Jon Robinson |
Message #119637, posted by castlevarich at 16:40, 29/2/2012, in reply to message #119633 |
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After checking ARMv7 compatibility list it seems that at least NetSurf, gcc and AMPlayer should work BeagleBoard (And maybe Raspberry Pi). I have compiled NetSurf 2.7 and used it and web browsing is ok on it. I never use flash or any plugins other than Video player and that is only because it makes my life with FlashVideoReplacer easier and I could live without it. By the way does anyone here know video player for RISC OS 5 that can play mp4 videos and is ARMv7 compatible? Asun Oulussa. Itse tiedän RISC OS:sta kiinnostuneeksi lisäkseni ainakin tunnuksella theinonen hopeinen omena palstalla esiintyvän henkilön.(Hän omistaa IYONIXin)
EDIT: I would want to add that I would propably use RISC OS as my main OS and I am a huge Open Source nut. (In my definition RISC OS 5 license is open source)
[Edited by JuEeHa at 13:28, 29/2/2012] Kinoamp -
http://users.skynet.be/Andre.Timmermans/image/kinoamp/kinoamp.htm
will do MPEG 1 and 2 and some AVIs containing MPEG, but it won't do MPEG 4 yet.
FFPlay -
http://www.users.on.net/~belles/software/ffmpeg/
may do, but I haven't tested it.
In practice, if I get an MPEG 4 I just recode it to MPEG 1 using FFMPeg from the same programmer, and watch it using KinoAmp. It does produce a larger file though.
In general, RISc OS probably supports audio formats better than video, partly because we haven't had a fast enough processor to do things like MPEG 4 until recently.
Jon Robinson, Leeds |
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Chris Gransden |
Message #119638, posted by grannyg at 17:24, 29/2/2012, in reply to message #119637 |
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mplayer should be appearing on riscos.info any day now. That will play mp4 videos as long as the resolution isn't too high. Up to 480p plays OK on beagleboard xM. |
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Juhani Haverinen |
Message #119639, posted by JuEeHa at 17:44, 29/2/2012, in reply to message #119637 |
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Thanks. I think I can use mpeg 1 or mpeg 2. I just like to use mp4 because it produces smaller files. |
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Michael Drake |
Message #119640, posted by tlsa at 17:46, 29/2/2012, in reply to message #119621 |
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RISC OS 5 is (effectively) the 32 bit version of RISC OS 4.02 and is functionally the same. Actually RISC OS 5 has a fair bit more functionality then 4.02. Things like the Unicode font manager, and DHCP. Later versions of RISC OS 5 also have all the work done through ROOL.
Later versions of RO 4 (eg. 4.39) add a lot of extra features. I think there was a comparison article on Drobe, though it will be a bit out of date now.
Also, you can softload some components from ROOL on RISC OS 4, like the font manager.
[Edited by tlsa at 17:47, 29/2/2012] |
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Michael Drake |
Message #119641, posted by tlsa at 18:03, 29/2/2012, in reply to message #119632 |
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you'd be much better off running RO4 which will run just about everything.
Except old Archimedes games. But you can use an Arc emulator for that.
Seconded. If it's everyday functionality (office apps and similar) you're interested in, older software is more stable and more available.
I'm not sure. Up-to-date versions of Ovation Pro, TechWriter and ArtWorks are all rock solid on an Iyonix here.
Also, the free software you can get on the web like DigitalCD, Avalanche, SunFish, KinoAMP, NetSurf, riscos.info ports, etc are all fully 32-bit and as stable on RISC OS 5 as anywhere. Certainly I've used an Iyonix for years exclusively and not turned on a RiscPC in that time.
There just isn't much 26-bit stuff available any more, unless you're going through old magazine floppy discs or something.
If you mean buying old software, I find old RISC OS software is enormously expensive. Also, whenever I've tried to buy RISC OS software 2nd hand, I've been burned by copy protection.
[Edited by tlsa at 18:05, 29/2/2012] |
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Michael Drake |
Message #119642, posted by tlsa at 18:08, 29/2/2012, in reply to message #119638 |
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mplayer should be appearing on riscos.info any day now. That will play mp4 videos as long as the resolution isn't too high. Up to 480p plays OK on beagleboard xM. Ooh, this is really interesting.
I'm curious about the performance. How does it compare to mplayer running on linux, on the same hardware? Is it built with NEON optimisation? Which version of GCC is it built with? I understand things are quite a bit quicker with GCC4.6 than GCC4.1. |
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Chris Gransden |
Message #119644, posted by grannyg at 18:33, 29/2/2012, in reply to message #119642 |
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I haven't done much comparative performance testing yet. It uses SDL for the display so I should be able to do like for like comparisons.
The version being released on riscos.info is built with gcc 4.1.2 so there are no specific optimisations.
I have a test version built with gcc 4.6.3 with all the available optimisations turned on. Although I had to turn off the NEON ones as ac3 sound was crashing mplayer. It certainly seems faster. I haven't done any performance comparisons yet to see how much faster it is.
It will play 576p on my Pandaboard ES at 1200MHz without dropping too many frames and keeping the sound in sync. |
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Michael Emerton |
Message #119645, posted by MEmerton at 18:42, 29/2/2012, in reply to message #119642 |
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mplayer should be appearing on riscos.info any day now. That will play mp4 videos as long as the resolution isn't too high. Up to 480p plays OK on beagleboard xM. Ooh, this is really interesting.
Seconded  |
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Sion |
Message #119646, posted by apacketofsweets at 22:46, 29/2/2012, in reply to message #119645 |
RISC OS, too cool for Javascript.
Posts: 107
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I don't think anybody's mentioned the BIK or the PIK from A4Com, they with RISC OS 5 pre-installed and all set-up, prices start at around £200 too. |
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Trevor Johnson |
Message #119647, posted by trevj at 22:49, 29/2/2012, in reply to message #119633 |
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(In my definition RISC OS 5 license is open source) On the off chance that someone/people may feel like working on some new RO marketing material in the future, how would you feel about being quoted on that? |
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Jason Togneri |
Message #119648, posted by filecore at 09:15, 1/3/2012, in reply to message #119647 |
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(In my definition RISC OS 5 license is open source) On the off chance that someone/people may feel like working on some new RO marketing material in the future, how would you feel about being quoted on that?
It's just some guy's opinion (no offence). I would think that the wording of the license in question is a more appropriate place to quote.
N.B. Juhani: olen skotlannista, mutta asun nyt Porvoossa, työpaikkani Espoossa. Mulla on Acorn Electron ja Kinetic RPC, mun ensimmäinen tietokone oli BBC Micro vuonna 1989, ja vihdoinkin vaihdoin Windowsiin vuonna 2003. Joskus on muita Acorn-faneja Helsingissa Alt Party:ssa lokakuussa, tervetuloa jos et ole ikinä ollut siella! |
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Trevor Johnson |
Message #119649, posted by trevj at 10:12, 1/3/2012, in reply to message #119648 |
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It's just some guy's opinion (no offence). True, but IMHO it's still valid in terms demonstrating to the wider public how user(s) may interpret the licence.
I would think that the wording of the license in question is a more appropriate place to quote. I agree that's crucial. You're right that it'd be ambiguous to use a quote such as that above out of context, with no further info of what the actual licensing status is. |
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Juhani Haverinen |
Message #119659, posted by JuEeHa at 18:50, 1/3/2012, in reply to message #119647 |
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(In my definition RISC OS 5 license is open source) On the off chance that someone/people may feel like working on some new RO marketing material in the future, how would you feel about being quoted on that?
I wouldn't mind it. Everything I say is under CC-BY. |
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Trevor Johnson |
Message #119660, posted by trevj at 21:45, 1/3/2012, in reply to message #119659 |
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CC-BY Great! Thanks. Your slightly remixed (but not taken out of context) quote is first on the list! If that's too cheeky or you have any problems with it, please say so.
Please note that this may not ultimately be used - it's just an idea for the moment. |
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Juhani Haverinen |
Message #119661, posted by JuEeHa at 15:45, 2/3/2012, in reply to message #119647 |
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I want to clarify one thing. For software that conforms FSF's four freedoms I use term free software. For any software that gives source code available so you can study it and compile it to working version I use term open source. |
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Peter Howkins |
Message #119662, posted by flibble at 16:22, 2/3/2012, in reply to message #119660 |
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CC-BY Great! Thanks. Your slightly remixed (but not taken out of context) quote is first on the list! If that's too cheeky or you have any problems with it, please say so.
Hi Trev, I don't think RISC OS is open source, can I be on the quotes page too please!
[Edited by flibble at 16:22, 2/3/2012] |
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Chris Gransden |
Message #119663, posted by grannyg at 19:37, 2/3/2012, in reply to message #119639 |
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mplayer is now available to download from riscos.info here http://www.riscos.info/packages/AudioDetails.html |
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