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Bond Trivia (Timothy Dolt) |
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Andrew |
Message #18031, posted by andrew at 09:35, 13/8/2002 |
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Living Daylights is on tomorrow.
This has been described as the best Bond film ever and I tend to agree.
Dalton was my favourite of all the Bonds.
Apparently the story was written for Roger Moore but Licence to Kill for Dalton.
Geoffrey Keen who played Sir Frederick Gray Minister of Defense from 1977 and then appeared alongside M (Robert Brown) for all the Moore films from then is in it as is Robert Brown.
Robert Brown also makes an appearance in Licence to Kill.
Dalton was loyal to Bond until around '93 when he felt he'd been associated with it for too long and although Goldeneye story had been started possibly with him in mind he left allowing Brosnan to step in (who hadn't been able to take up the role in '87 when Dalton declined the initial offer).
Apparently Sir Frederick Gray's character makes an appearance in Goldeneye but by another actor.
Also you'll see General Gogol who was in most of Moore's films but in another job (not role).
Felix Leiter appears (can't remember when) but not as the same actor as previously although this actor returns for Licence to Kill having appeared I think in Live and Let Die.
I think it is one of the most disappointing event s in the history of cinema that Dalton didn't carry on with Bond.
He won acclaim for being the actor most closely portraying Fleming's creation and arguably the reason License to Kill didn't do so well was because of poor marketing.
From what I can work out Dalton did not go because people didn't like him _ I can't find evidence that he went for this reason anywhere - so don't let people tell you he did!
[Edited by andrew at 09:39, 13/8/2002] |
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Richard Goodwin |
Message #18051, posted by rich at 10:29, 13/8/2002, in reply to message #18031 |
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He was dull. You obviously haven't been looking very hard. Fleming always said that Cary Grant was his ideal Bond, and in no way did Dalton have that charm and panache - a good actor, but totally miscast. Brosnan does a good job of balancing the charm and sadism required for the part, if only they'd give him some decent scripts (The World Is Not Enough? Rehash of some old Connery scripts).
Of the modern Bond films I liked Tomorrow Never Dies best, because it had a good mix of realism and escapism. I'm not keen on the out-and-out sci-fi/fantasy that some Bond films fall in to - like pretty much all of Roger Eyebrow's Bond films.
________
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Rich.
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Andrew |
Message #18056, posted by andrew at 10:56, 13/8/2002, in reply to message #18051 |
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I pretty much liked all of the actors who played him and don't forget Roger Moore made 7films (suggest FYEO for his most serious).
I thought Dalton brought a lot of realism and updated the role in a sensible way i.e. just not being overly smarmy and sexist instead of having M say blatantly "youre a masoginist dinosaur" - that was really unnecessary imo.
I thought he had the right balance and what I meant by that last part was that I can find no record of Timothy Dalton being ousted from the part as a result of viewer's dislike for him. As I said he was critically acclaimed but more importantly there was 4 years of legal wrangling and at the end of this Dalton said he'd had enough.
I do like Brosnan though but Goldeneye was OTT in many respects. It seemed to tread on all the work that Dalton had done in bringing Bond into the present.
[Edited by andrew at 10:56, 13/8/2002] |
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Richard Goodwin |
Message #18059, posted by rich at 11:35, 13/8/2002, in reply to message #18056 |
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Unpopular Dalton - after about 5 seconds Google-age:
http://www.dack.com/suck/suck_classic.html
(suck list item #11)
http://liamneesonfanclub.tripod.com/articles/leadingmen.html
("Dalton ultimately proved unpopular with audiences")
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000050YLV/ref%3Ded%5Ffelist%5F1%5F4/202-3785258-6575812
("the unpopular Dalton")
That's just page one!
Dalton was unpopular. Without getting access to Brocolli PLC's minutes no-one can say if this was or was not the defining reason why Dalton left, but you don't keep unpopular leading men in a popular franchise *cough*Val*Kilmer*Batman*cough*. If he didn't jump, he would have been pushed anyway.
And he's Welsh for goodness sake! The greatest English spy has been Scottish, Irish, Welsh and Aussie. P'tah.
________
Cheers,
Rich.
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Andrew |
Message #18064, posted by andrew at 12:16, 13/8/2002, in reply to message #18059 |
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Yes I know this but I mean if you look at the official statements and in interviews the producers nor Mr.Dalton will not give any sign that he was pushed to go.
I've never been able to see for why, the unpopularity anyway.
Yes, colwyn Bay I believe but quickly moved to Manchester! |
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Andrew |
Message #18065, posted by andrew at 12:17, 13/8/2002, in reply to message #18064 |
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Btw, here's the context of that last link:
Brosnan's performance in TWINE is his best as Bond so far. Although I still say the unpopular Dalton is still the only actor who has truly nailed the Bond character, Brosnan, in this film, isn't far off. This time Bond is shown to have a real emotional investment in the cases he takes on and the people he protects. |
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Richard Goodwin |
Message #18067, posted by rich at 12:36, 13/8/2002, in reply to message #18065 |
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Btw, here's the context of that last link: I know the context. The author of the piece happened to like him, but still admits that he was unpopular. Ergo, even those that loved him still recognised that he wasn't a popular Bond.
________
Cheers,
Rich.
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Richard Goodwin |
Message #18069, posted by rich at 12:40, 13/8/2002, in reply to message #18064 |
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Yes I know this but I mean if you look at the official statements and in interviews the producers nor Mr.Dalton will not give any sign that he was pushed to go. Yes, and MPs really do leave to "spend more time with his family". No one official is going to come out and say "yeah, he was crap, we got rid at the first possible moment", they'll always say something like "oh, we're really sorry to see him go, and wish him well in his next venture". It's basic politics.
I've never been able to see for why, the unpopularity anyway. He just wasn't any fun. He seemed to take things too seriously, which, although I disliked Moore's Bond, some humour is needed to round the character off. The quips just didn't fly from Dalton's mouth like they did with Connery, Moore, and Brosnan.
And who was the only stiff guy in Flash Gordon? That film was more camp than a forest full of cub scouts, and Dalton still played it like he'd got a stick stuck up his ass.
________
Cheers,
Rich.
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Andrew |
Message #18078, posted by andrew at 13:54, 13/8/2002, in reply to message #18067 |
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Btw, here's the context of that last link: I know the context. The author of the piece happened to like him, but still admits that he was unpopular. Ergo, even those that loved him still recognised that he wasn't a popular Bond.
No and as I day I don't understand why. |
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Andrew |
Message #18079, posted by andrew at 13:56, 13/8/2002, in reply to message #18069 |
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Yes I know this but I mean if you look at the official statements and in interviews the producers nor Mr.Dalton will not give any sign that he was pushed to go. Yes, and MPs really do leave to "spend more time with his family". No one official is going to come out and say "yeah, he was crap, we got rid at the first possible moment", they'll always say something like "oh, we're really sorry to see him go, and wish him well in his next venture". It's basic politics.
I've never been able to see for why, the unpopularity anyway. He just wasn't any fun. He seemed to take things too seriously, which, although I disliked Moore's Bond, some humour is needed to round the character off. The quips just didn't fly from Dalton's mouth like they did with Connery, Moore, and Brosnan.
And who was the only stiff guy in Flash Gordon? That film was more camp than a forest full of cub scouts, and Dalton still played it like he'd got a stick stuck up his ass.
But I liked the seriousness you see (see earlier post).
And watchit! I look up to the guy!
He was also in Dune, RocketMan and another film with Patrick Steward (around 1985). |
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Marco Frissen |
Message #18082, posted by mfrissen at 14:34, 13/8/2002, in reply to message #18031 |
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James Bond is a wuss. |
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Richard Goodwin |
Message #18083, posted by rich at 14:45, 13/8/2002, in reply to message #18082 |
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James Bond is a wuss. Obviously Marco's a big Vin Diesel fan 
________
Cheers,
Rich.
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Andrew |
Message #18087, posted by andrew at 15:11, 13/8/2002, in reply to message #18083 |
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James Bond is a wuss. Obviously Marco's a big Vin Diesel fan
I see.
Van der Walk would batter him.
[Edited by andrew at 15:11, 13/8/2002] |
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I don't have tourettes you're just a cun |
Message #18088, posted by [mentat] at 15:19, 13/8/2002, in reply to message #18079 |
![[mentat]](/images/smileys/mentat.gif) Fear is the mind-killer
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He was in Dune??? Errm, really?
From http://www.insane.nu/kult/flash.htm :
"Flash Gordon is sci-fi filmmaking at it's best, better than Dune, better than The Matrix, hell I'd say it's even better than Star Wars!"
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Marco Frissen |
Message #18089, posted by mfrissen at 15:23, 13/8/2002, in reply to message #18083 |
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offtopic, but I you want to see a *good* action movie, check out shiri:
http://www.ipix.co.kr/ |
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Andrew |
Message #18094, posted by andrew at 16:23, 13/8/2002, in reply to message #18088 |
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He was in Dune??? Errm, really?
From
:
"Flash Gordon is sci-fi filmmaking at it's best, better than Dune, better than The Matrix, hell I'd say it's even better than Star Wars!"
Yes he was!! You of all people should know that!
I didn;t know or had forgotten about Flash G. tho. |
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I don't have tourettes you're just a cun |
Message #18096, posted by [mentat] at 16:26, 13/8/2002, in reply to message #18094 |
Fear is the mind-killer
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Yes he was!! You of all people should know that! Yes, I should. Who did he play? URL please! Evidence!!!  |
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Andrew |
Message #18097, posted by andrew at 16:49, 13/8/2002, in reply to message #18096 |
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OH NO
I think I've made a big slip-up here and been thinking of a scene from Dune with Patrick Stewart as Timothy Dalton. For all these years. Oh well, sorry.. |
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I don't have tourettes you're just a cun |
Message #18098, posted by [mentat] at 16:51, 13/8/2002, in reply to message #18097 |
Fear is the mind-killer
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Patrick Stewart played Timothy Dalton in Dune?!?!?
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Jeffrey Lee |
Message #18110, posted by Phlamethrower at 17:18, 13/8/2002, in reply to message #18098 |
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*skips all replies and puts own point across*
I'm not really that arsed about the actors or the acting, I'm just interested in the plot
I mean, c'mon, what could be a better plan than flooding silicon valley to control the microchip industry? Or (in Goldeneye) using an EMP satellite to take over the stock market (Or whatever the plot was, can't remember  But the EMP satellite made it a good film  )
Megalomaniacs always make a good film |
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Andrew |
Message #18112, posted by andrew at 18:37, 13/8/2002, in reply to message #18110 |
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No I think an actor can have a huge impact on the film.
And can somebody please spell Mr.Dalton's name correctly! |
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Kevin Wells |
Message #18126, posted by Revin Kevin at 21:31, 13/8/2002, in reply to message #18059 |
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And he's Welsh for goodness sake! The greatest English spy has been Scottish, Irish, Welsh and Aussie. P'tah.
But in the Books he was born in Scotland |
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Kevin Wells |
Message #18127, posted by Revin Kevin at 21:32, 13/8/2002, in reply to message #18082 |
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James Bond is a wuss. Read the books he was a complete merciless bastard. Which made him better than the films ever did. |
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Andrew |
Message #18129, posted by andrew at 23:40, 13/8/2002, in reply to message #18126 |
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And he's Welsh for goodness sake! The greatest English spy has been Scottish, Irish, Welsh and Aussie. P'tah.
But in the Books he was born in Scotland
True but his parents were both killed no? |
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Andrew |
Message #18136, posted by andrew at 11:29, 14/8/2002, in reply to message #18129 |
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I think Mr.dalton's official site could do with 's web-design skills. It's terrible, a mass of text and a 600K poor res. scan at the top! |
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Richard Goodwin |
Message #18141, posted by rich at 11:44, 14/8/2002, in reply to message #18126 |
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And he's Welsh for goodness sake! The greatest English spy has been Scottish, Irish, Welsh and Aussie. P'tah. But in the Books he was born in Scotland
As the Duke of Wellington once said, just because you're born in a stable doesn't make you a donkey. [insert bleedin' obvious biblical reference]. Wellington, nee Arthur "Beaky" Wellsley, was of course a great British general - who was born in Ireland.
However, being born in Wales is much worse, and let's face it, Timmy Dalton didn't defeat Napoleon so I'm much less likely to forgive him
________
Cheers,
Rich.
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Richard Goodwin |
Message #18143, posted by rich at 11:50, 14/8/2002, in reply to message #18110 |
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I'm not really that arsed about the actors or the acting, I'm just interested in the plot Then you're missing half the fun. Take an average film on paper - e.g. Hunt for Red October, True Romance etc. - and then populate with great actors (Sean Connery who speaks even Russian with a Scottish accent, or in the latter film Christopher Walken vs. Dennis Hopper interrogation scene). Stir well until the ham is well distributed. Cook for 96 minutes and serve.
The Timothy Dolt-on Bond films were not great films to start with, and he didn't improve them. Goldeneye was still faintly ridiculous but had Brosnan, as well as good support from Joe Don Baker and Robbie Coltrain to name but a few. And a Bond girl that made you die happy...
________
Cheers,
Rich.
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Richard Goodwin |
Message #18152, posted by rich at 13:03, 14/8/2002, in reply to message #18141 |
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However, being born in Wales is much worse, and let's face it, Timmy Dalton didn't defeat Napoleon so I'm much less likely to forgive him I think I should be careful about the anti-non-English jokes, given the latest new user...
Welcome our newest member robins
Profile for user robins
Name: Scott Robinson
Email: scottr@powys.gov.uk
ICQ: 0
Total posts: 0
________
Cheers,
Rich.
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Andrew |
Message #18156, posted by andrew at 13:40, 14/8/2002, in reply to message #18143 |
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I'm not really that arsed about the actors or the acting, I'm just interested in the plot Then you're missing half the fun. Take an average film on paper - e.g. Hunt for Red October, True Romance etc. - and then populate with great actors (Sean Connery who speaks even Russian with a Scottish accent, or in the latter film Christopher Walken vs. Dennis Hopper interrogation scene). Stir well until the ham is well distributed. Cook for 96 minutes and serve.
The Timothy Dolt-on Bond films were not great films to start with, and he didn't improve them. Goldeneye was still faintly ridiculous but had Brosnan, as well as good support from Joe Don Baker and Robbie Coltrain to name but a few. And a Bond girl that made you die happy...
But I think Living Daylights was a fantastic film and has been described as the best ever. Personally I like how he brought that darker, serious edge to them which left a great impression when I first saw his films.
Joe Don Baker also played Brad Whittaker in Living Daylights but now is the Felix Leiter 'replacement'.
I read one BBC article (Search for Timothy Dalton) which says something like 'now Bond is comtemporary PC reality'. What trash, Dalton updated the films marvellously without bowing to making blatant and superficial remarks and situations about men and women being equal. They're not and the head of MI6 has never been a woman. I'm not objecting to that but the whole contradiction of pretending to be contemporary yet losing and backtracking on the reality that Dalton's films seemed to have. |
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Richard Goodwin |
Message #18181, posted by rich at 14:20, 14/8/2002, in reply to message #18156 |
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But I think Living Daylights was a fantastic film and has been described as the best ever. And so has Flash Gordon. So just because someone says it's great, doesn't make it so.Joe Don Baker also played Brad Whittaker in Living Daylights but now is the Felix Leiter 'replacement'. He came into his own with the "can you hand me that hammer there Jimmy?" bit in Goldeneye. Last decent thing I saw him in before that was Edge of Darkness, which shows my age.and the head of MI6 has never been a woman. Thus completely missing out on the fact that it's a nod to Stella Rimington's turn as head honcho at MI5. Tsk.
Bond will never be based completely in reality, but it's nice to see female characters that aren't just bed fodder and black characters that aren't just carrying Bond's luggage. Just because Dalton didn't get to shag [m]any of his Bond girls doesn't make it more realistic
________
Cheers,
Rich.
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